Fall 1999
Vol 8 Issue 1
IN THIS ISSUE...
Technology: Places for Student Voices
Assisting Student Learning with Technology
Technology and Computers- More than Just Classroom Learning
Laptops, Websites, and Angkor-Wat
Ten Years of Student Voices on the Electronic Forum
Learning, Programming and Moving On at MCLI
Learning that Provides a Direction for the Future
Are We Listening to International Students?
Hands-On Experience, Service Learning Makes it Real at MCC's Network Academy
SEE ALSO...
The Forum
Assidere
Maricopa Center for Learning and Instruction
Hands-on Experience, Service Learning Makes it Real at MCC's Network Academy
Alan Levine, MCLI
NOTE: The audio version of this interview, taped on 9.25.99, is available in RealAudio format.
The Network Academy is one of the programs at Mesa Community College's Business and Industry Institute. Director Pinny Sheoran contacted us with information about a new Service Learning project. In this program, students spend part of their time answering questions posted by people from around the world to the Support4Free web site, developed in partnership with local computer consultant Ken Colburn of DataDoctors. The students also get real-world experience working with network technicians at sites such as Mesa Lutheran Hospitals.
Pinny invited us to chat with a group of these students and staff members from the Network Academy so they could share their Service Learning experiences. Judy started as a student and now works for the Network Academy. She shared the events of how this took place.
Judy: I started as a "re-entry woman," someone who was changing from a lower skilled job to something better. My first class was in a classroom with two women and fifteen men. The instructor, Vasantha Srinivasan, was very encouraging to all her students, but it was especially important for us since we were the only females in the class.
It was hard to take classes while I worked full time. I tried to do this ten years ago when I first moved here. At that time, in the technology field, personnel managers who hired were looking for local experience. Although I had a two-year technical degree, I was unable to find a job that would help me pay for childcare. So, here I am ten years later trying again.
Vasantha told me about an internship at the Network Academy in which one worked for minimum and had the opportunity to learn and work in an environment of people who understood the limitations of students. I applied, interviewed, and was hired as an intern. It was a change for me because I was assigned to work in a department where the other two technical support people were young males. However, I was glad because it was an environment in which I could get hands-on experience while I was learning.
Many other students who did not have an opportunity for hands-on learning were interested in my responsibilities. We just began a new program and worked with a local businessman, Ken Colburn, called Support4Free, a non-profit, online web support organization. This service provides answers to questions posted from people all over the world. Another Service Learning student, Divjyot, and I started answering questions from people who were experiencing trouble with their computers; they asked all kinds of questions. In the beginning, we did not really know what we were doing!
We went out on the web looking for answers. Colburn was supportive and informed us that our answers were good. He also stated that we were responding to people in a professional manner. While answering their questions, we were learning about technology and gaining great job skills. It prompted us to continue this program and prompted me to request a job, which I have now, supporting service learning students at the Network Academy.
Alan: How many students are now in the program? How does it work?
Judy: It is growing; we have sixteen now. The students that come to us come from a broad range of backgrounds. They are women who are re-entry students, and some are multi-cultural students. Many are people who may be older and have worked in other fields, and now they are displaced.
The students sign up for a three-credit course called "Service Learning." It is a regular academic course, which is 16 weeks long and requires 150 hours of time. We coordinate with a number of non-profit organizations where the students volunteer their time. The sites agree to provide an environment where the student will work one-on-one with mentors in their field.
While students earn a grade, they have a faculty advisor submit weekly logs, and at the end, they complete a paper which describes how they achieved their original goals.
Next, we meet Suzanne, a new student to this program.
Alan: Suzanne, how did you get into this service learning program?
Suzanne: I received an A+ Certification but had absolutely no-hands on experience, so I didn't feel very qualified for any position. Although I had managed to get a few interviews, I didn't do well because I felt like I didn't demonstrate my confidence. Then I read about the MCC Service Learning program in the Scottsdale Tribune, met the people here, and immediately signed up for it. I've only been enrolled three weeks. During this time I have answered questions on the Support4Free site, which has been good experience. However, I am looking forward even more to working at Mesa Lutheran Hospital. When I begin this coming weekend, I will get actual hands-on experience with their computer systems.
Alan: There is a lot of emphasis now placed on the certification but perhaps what is lost in the wash is the lack of that applied experience. Here you get a mixture of the support line help through the web as well as network experience in a workplace
Suzanne: Working on the Support4Free site has been helpful because I feel I know that I can get on it and maybe find the answer. It's a real good feeling when you can answer someone's question. I think it is a bit distressing when you have absolutely no idea what they are asking! To myself I think "I have a certification and I should be able to answer this!" but I can't. It shows how much I really don't knowI am just good at taking tests.
Divjyot was one of the first students in the Service Learning Program.
Divjyot: I moved here from India about a year-and- a-half ago. I had taken a few computer courses in India, but that experience was eight years ago. These courses included old programming languages like COBOL, BASIC, and little bit of C. I worked in India for about three years, but I always avoided technical jobs. I had done programming, and I knew that it meant deadlines and a long commitmentI was looking for something a little easier! So, I stayed mostly in administrative jobs. However, when I came to the United States, I decided that I wanted to do something new.
I read about the Network Academy in the MCC catalog. It sounded interesting because I had done a lot of things with computers, but never networking. I, too, had encouragement from Vasantha. She is amazing in class! I was in a class, also, with just two women and all men. When you walk into a class like that, the men all have an expression on their faces like, "What are these women doing here?" Are computers and math supposed to be a male thing? I don't agree.
I enjoyed the courses I took here, and I have passed my Networking Essentials and Workstation courses. I did not have a lot of direct experience in networking. This is the reason I was interested in the Service Learning program.
When I looked at the first few questions that came in to the Support4Free site, I felt like I did not know anything! How am I ever going to answer these questions? I almost gave up, but then decided to work together with Judy.
Judy said, "I don't know anything either, so let's do it together." It was great to get positive feedback from Ken Colburn. It was even better when we compared our answers to similar ones maintained on the site's databaseit made us feel like our answers were correct. Finally, it is great to get feedback from the people we help.
I have more experience now, and I feel more confident. I am eager to go out and see what the job market has to offer now that I have a certificate in addition to experience. The best thing about the program is that it gives you an opportunity that you could not possibly have in industry. We are absolutely fresh, just out of class, and I don't think people in business would want us to experiment on their systems without this experience!
Lamani, who is deaf, described his background through his interpreter, Debbie.
Lamani: I am from Samoa. Three years ago I decided that I would major in computers, but I had not decided beyond this major. I struggled with a computer systems major; then I switched to computer science, but I wasn't very comfortable with it either. Then I talked to a computer engineer who was also deaf, and he gave me a lot of information that convinced me to change my major once again, this time to Networking.
I have been here at MCC about a year, and have some lab experience, but not a lot of hands-on in the "real" world. When I was offered an internship, I thought this would be a chance to get that experience. I needed this so much. Judy has supervised and helped me edit and get through the web site support process.
To get hired, you might not even need a certificate or a degree. Employers are really looking for is hands-on experience. They are going to hire someone with a lot of experience over someone that just has a piece of paper.
Marsha, a staff member, shared her thoughts on this program.
Marsha: I handle the graphic design for the Business and Industry Institute. I came today to gather more information about the Service Learning program to include in our new web site. What I am hearing is that people are not getting sufficient experience learning technology through academia. However, I see that they are getting the opportunity to confront communication skills with real people in the Support4Free program. This requires that they develop patience, self-confidence, as well as research skills. Most importantly, though, are the communication skills which involves dealing with people and finding the answers. Additionally, while doing all of this, they must maintain a sense of who they are and not become overwhelmed because they don't have the answer. They are finding out that the field is too big, one cannot know all the answers, so one must be good at researching, communicating, and inspiring confidence in the person that is waiting for an answer.
We then discussed the needs that the Service Learning program is addressing.
Judy: The students we have enrolled in the program can bring something of great impact to the technology workforce. Currently, people that work in the networking field represent a small part of the diversity in this country. When this wave of students enters the technical field, they will be part of a change. Gone will be the image of a techie that comes out and sneers at you because you don't know much about your computer and gives you a curt answer before returning to his little cave. I believe that this wave of students understands that not everybody knows everything. No one can, but we can change that image. We understand that people out there deserve more respectwe can educate them when we answer their questions. We can present to them that it is OK to ask questions.
Pinny: I'd like to add why we decided to move into organizing Service Learning as a way of providing hands-on experience. To do very complex technology programs, we need the complex technology itself and complex technical support. We are not competitive enough with the marketplace in developing professional staff. If we are serious about education, every venue we have should be an educational opportunity. I believe that the technical support for this department is going to come from its students.
As a faculty member, my concern is how can I get students to extend this learning. Initially, I offered paid internships, but the truth is we do not know if students are learning in an internship. I looked at Service Learning in which the restriction is a non-profit environment. Our perspective of Service Learning has been that it is a "soup kitchen" approach, a societal service. But those non-profit agencies have a technical infrastructure that allows them to serve the community. And, look what we are saying to students-pay 3 credits, give 150 hours-it better be something that benefits them! The key is to find strong sites. Here's what students learn at a site; they learn what it takes to start working in a large organization, they fill out forms, sometimes they go through security. Students also learn that if they do not have a good supervisor, they end up wasting their own time.
My challenge is in finding sites for their hands-on experience. And, I want them not just to have experience at just one site, but multiple experiences. For their 150 hours, we would like them to do part on the Support4Free project, where they are learning how to research, how to assess the question, how to answer the question in a language that is understandable to human beings, not techies. And more importantly, they are learning how to depend on each other, because they work in teams. If they don't know an answer, it's okay, because someone else might.
I want to speak to the learning side. I require that the students keep a weekly log. My hope is that the students' learning will be reflective. At the end, they write a report, and in these reports they begin to think a little bit more about not only what they have learned, but how they learned.
The students shared some of their thoughts on the program.
Alan: Can you tell us about research skills and writing skills?
Divjyot: When I started answering questions from Support4Free, Ken Colburn was editing our answers to ensure quality. Our first ones were completely edited, but after two weeks, they started coming back without major changes. When you see your work being edited, you think about the reasons why they were edited, and then try to adjust your next answers in a similar way. We tried to construct our answers in a way that the person who wrote them would understand. We had questions from beginners who did not know anything about computers, and we had questions from people much more experienced than we.
Alan: When you got that first feedback, did you look at it as, "This is what I need to improve my work?"
Divjyot: Yes. It was good to see the feedback. I was not confident at all in those first two weeks, and we tried to answer it in they way we thought it should be. However, we found out we could do much better.
Alan: What is an example of a difficult question?
Judy: Sometimes it is from someone that knows enough to be dangerous, but not enough to fix their computer. We get a lot of questions that say, "My computer wasn't working right, so I reformatted the hard drive, and I flashed the CMOS battery, re-installed Windows and nothing is working right." Now it is really difficult because they wiped out everything they had which might have indicated the problem. They probably do not realize how hard it is to start from scratch.
Suzanne: Yesterday, I had a person who asked, "What kind of computer should I buy?" and that was it! I wrote back with questions like "What do you need it to do?" These types of questions are not really specific enough to answer. We get some questions in which there is not enough information, or it is garbled because the writer may not have good communication skills, so you have no idea what they are asking.
Alan: What are the differences between classroom learning and what you do here?
Lamani: With Service Learning, you receive more diverse learning, from different companies. You learn how to apply your knowledge by hands-on learning. The class depends a lot on the teacher. I feel like the classroom is almost more for future teachers; however, Service Learning is more for those that will go into the field.
Pinny: Do you think that in this learning, you are learning more because you are talking to other people? Are you able to do that in the classroom?
Lamani: In Service Learning, there is more socialization, more networking. It is limited in the classroom. It seems like in the classroom, you do not find much group discussion, mostly lecture. People stay to themselves. In Service Learning, when a question comes up, I can always approach a student peer and ask for help. We can answer and solve the problem together. I am confident that I learn much better that way.
Pinny: Students are getting an exposure to the range of problems they may have to solve out there in the Support4Free site. My first vision was limited to keeping students in different Service Learning situations, but now I think we say that students should get at least three different experiences, one in Support4Free but then two more with hands-on experiences.
We are touching only 16 out of 1800 students in this program. How can we reach more? This is not just an add-on; there is some very serious learning happening. This may sound corny, but I heard someone recently say the way you become a public institution is by making life-long linkages with individuals. So, I am hoping that as Divjyot goes on to some company, she'll start talking about internships, and, maybe, after she goes out and works a few years, she will come back and teach for us as an adjunct faculty member!
Alan: If you could talk to your teachers in general, what would you like to tell them about reaching you more effectively?
Suzanne: I have found that many of my teachers have not taught me anything. I go in and get the credit, but then I go home and learn the material myself. I look in books, and more books, and read, and read, in order to pass the certification exam. I don't feel like I get a great deal of knowledge from a person who stands in front and reads a book to me. Many people teaching assume that you know a lot more than you do, because they know it they think it is so easy, and everyone knows what you know. For instance, in my A+ certification class, we did some hands-on; however, when you are female and paired with a guy, you are not going to get much hands-on experience becausethey just say "Here, let me do it. I know what I'm doing;" it makes it very difficult to learn in that situation.
Lamani: Some of the teachers are fantastic lecturers. Much of the time we would sit with the computers while the instructor stood in front of the room. We would be seated in a way where we would be watching the lecturer, and we would work hands-on with the computer at the same time as the lecture. I like that part of it.
Marsha: I've noticed that a lot of classes seem to have students who work full-time. What percentage of our students are already working? Does this make it tough on the first time new students?
Pinny: In our program, 46% of the students have Bachelors degrees, yet they are pursing an AAS degree because it is a technical degree. Over 60% are employed in a full-time job. Yet, some of them may not be working in the technical field, so we do not want to assume that it is only the full-time students that need support. The purpose of Service Learning is to provide hands-on learning to anyone that says, "I need it." I do not care if they are experts or not.
On the teaching side, I think it is critical for our faculty to recognize that it is easy teaching to those that already know the material, because then you become involved in a debate; you are not really teaching. The faculty make me happiest when they tell about the students who, when they arrived, know nothing. This is later contrasted with how they helped them. Good faculty know to take the students who really know a subject, and pair them with the ones that don't. That's a part of good teaching and classroom management.
We should ask the students what the environment is like when they enter without prior knowledge. I'd like to put the challenge to the students-if you don't come in with the experience, don't you have an obligation to demand that it is created? I always tell students that is so easy to complain, but talk to me about what you are going to do in the classroom to help your teacher realize, "Hey! Can you organize this differently? Can we do it as group work?" I know, as a teacher, I learned more from all the things students said I did not do for them.
I'd like to ask how do you feel about being in class with people who are already working in the technical field?
Divjyot: They can tell us what the real world is like. In some of my classes I was the only student who was not a full-time employee. Sometimes we would address a topic, and they could say, "We solved this kind of problem, and this is how we did it" Some of them would even bring in problems which were not covered in the book.
Suzanne: I began the program at a real disadvantage. I was expecting a divorce and knew I could not support myself. In my first class, I could get by just by reading the book. But in the next class, I walked into a lab and did not even know how to turn a computer on! I did not own one. This was totally beyond my realm. If someone else had not paid for my classes, I might have given up. However, I told myself I could learn it. My instructor helped by pairing me with an experienced Novell administrator. I got by because I was stubborn!
Because I began in a position where everyone knew so much more than I, I felt incompetent from the beginning; and I've never really caught up. After the A-Tech, I started going to another community college (before coming to MCC), and I had some teachers that were really bad! I don't mind if a teacher makes a mistake, or says to me, "I don't know the answer. Let's find out" But this one teacher was so bad that he didn't realize he did not know the answers. Possibly, he just made up the answers. I dropped that class because I was so afraid he would teach me something that was wrong.
Pinny: In our institutions, we have encouraged images that a good teacher is one that knows everything, a hotshot. But the truth is that they are not doing a service to our students. This frightens me. This student just said, "I don't mind that you don't know, just don't lie to me!" I've found that good faculty are not the ones who know a lot; they are the ones that know about good teaching and learning.
